LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATION DETERMINES PAYPAL RIPPED OFF $1,500, NOT THE EBAY SELLER

You repeatedly report that paypal is an okay outfit to do business with and let me say I have and continue to do business with them. However, here is how they have ripped me off for $1,500 dollars and took four months to even respond to two letters, and then only after a complaint to eBay (which was never even answered after 30 days). The attached is to my response to their letter answering my lengthy complaint that basically said what I am saying here again. They apparently never even read the complaint all the way through, just sending a standard form letter that says you released the money and you only get one complaint, so we just took your $1500. the rest is self explanatory and after reading the attached then read the following which is a cut and paste of what I sent in response to their form letter.

RESPONSE TO THE BELOW ...ATTACHED INFORMATION.

Problem with Pay Pal letter Sent to newsletter editors who write on eBay etc

[secretary],
You do not face the problem, you just send me another form letter that says that I can continue to contact you..... for what? It took months to even get the courtesy of a response and then only after I filed a complaint with eBay.

1. I contracted with you to pay the $1500 I sent you to the seller for several hundred dvds..

2. The seller apparently (unknown to me and none of my business) had a problem with eBay. He is the one that filed a form to hold up the transaction with PayPal. He apparently had an inkling PayPal was going to clam on to the money and not pay him....so he filed a stop on the transaction. We did not know this. He was telling us he could not ship
because he could not get paid, and if he did he would ship immediately. We took him at his word, and told PayPal to pay him with us taking the risk, by releasing the hold. They never paid him.

3. We were in a hurry because of a sale and needed the merchandise promptly or not at all. The seller claimed he did not ship because he could not get payment from PayPal.

4. We believed he would ship it if he got paid so we cleared whatever the hold up was to go ahead and pay him so we could get our merchandise.

5. PayPal did not pay him. Complaints filed with PayPal were told to go after the seller to get our money back.

6. We tracked him down, got the police involved who did an investigation. They determined the seller could not be expected to return our money since he had never gotten it. Pay Pal did not pay him as we contracted for them to do with our money, namely deliver it to the seller so he could ship our merchandise.

7. The police conducted a lengthy investigation, including all documents the seller filed with eBay and PayPal. After this lengthy investigation, we were informed we had no claim. The prosecuting attorney said we had no claim or complaint with him, he could not be expected to ship it since he had never been paid by PayPal.

8. The prosecuting attorney and the police department both informed us our claim was with paypal since they were the party who had "taken" our money.

9. PayPal claims we essentially gave them the money to keep since according to their little "gotcha" catch 22 in their fine print, that somehow gives them a legal excuse or some kind of justification to just rip off our money ($1500), when we released the money to the seller. Apparently according to their fine print we are entitled to file only one complaint and we released that one. We never filed the hold (complaint), the seller filed it. We released the money for PayPal to
pay the seller so he could ship.

10. Somehow, PayPal claims this step entitles them to keep the money, apparently because unbeknown to us the seller owed them money (they do not say that, we are just reading between the lines here).

11. It has taken two letters, over 4 months and a letter to eBay to even get the courtesy of a response which seems to be nothing more then a form letter that responds to nothing we said.

12. If PayPal paid the seller we would have been able to recover our money from the seller. We have no case against the seller..... Law enforcement people verified this. Our money transfer was NEVER DELIVERED. It was diverted and ripped off by PayPal.

13. A rip off by a big name is no different then a rip off by some crooked seller. Rest assured I am going to recover my money sent in good faith to a seller that never arrived.

14. Our lengthy response to the first "standard paypal form letter to complaintents" merely brought another form letter. Not one word, again, of any response whatsoever to anything we said or sent at all. The second response apparently was also an automated response by an email auto responder.

Regards,
Harlan Jacobsen
* * * * * * *

Since this was sent.... I got the same standard form letter....(#3) sorry we can't do anything, we suggest you take action against the seller type stuff they have been giving me...six months again... They do not even read that law enforcement has determined after our complaint to the FBI, which they are sending me to now again, that it was PayPal that took
my money and any action has to be against PayPal. How many times do I complain about this and how many form letters do you get in response.... some outfit...won't even read or respond to the complaint.

Any suggestions? Any help anywhere..? eBay won't respond. It took months to get this form letter response...from PayPal...three form letters in a row to lengthy explanations...etc. Basically they say....you are screwed..... If I send another....they won't read it...just auto response...the "you are screwed" form letter.

Regards,
Harlan Jacobsen
* * * * * * * *

From: "[x]@paypal.com" <[x]@paypal.com>
Date: 2005/01/17 Mon PM 10:09:24 EST
To: Harlan Jacobsen <harlanjacobsen@webtv.net>
Subject: Re: Ripped off by Pay Pal (KMM67342516V17404L0KM)

Dear Harlan Jacobsen,

Thank you for contacting PayPal. The company values your business, and I want to do everything possible to resolve your complaint.

Although we deeply regret that you may feel the need to escalate this issue further, as an ethical company, providing a valuable service, and operating in accordance with all applicable laws as well as the terms of our User Agreement, we will gladly respond to any inquiry you may feel the need to make regarding this matter.

We continually strive to exceed our customers' expectations. We hope that you continue to use PayPal for your online payment needs and allow us to demonstrate why PayPal is the leading online payment service in the industry. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again at [x]@paypal.com.

Sincerely,
[secretary]
Executive Escalations
PayPal, an eBay Company

Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Re: FW: Letter received From eBay (KMM67294270V46349L0KM)
[secretary],
You obviously did not read my letter very well. Number one I never filed a complaint to put a hold on anything...THE SELLER DID.... He filed that hold..... he was having trouble with pay pal......... check that one out.........
We were told by the seller he could not ship because PayPal would not pay him the money...
THIS WAS TRUE. We did not cancel a hold we filed because WE NEVER FILED ONE.
We told paypal to GO AHEAD AND PAY HIM because that was why we were not getting the merchandise. The hold was between PayPal and the seller... Please note we are entitled to file one hold or whatever..... We never filed one the seller did... So we are still entitled....to PayPal refund....Pay Attention here....even by your self serving rules we are entitled to our money back....we NEVER FILED A HOLD.... We were correctly told by the seller that Paypal was not paying him. We were not aware of a formal hold because we never filed one....we were informed pay pal was not paying him...

NEXT. We filed against the seller....a formal complaint that was referred to his local authorities and the police and the local prosecuting attorney checked it all out and determined...the seller did not rip us off because he never got any money from us or paypal, he could not have taken our money and not delivered the merchandise because he WAS NEVER PAID BY PAY PAL.

The prosecuting attorney advised us our complaint was with Pay Pal which WAS WHO TOOK OUR MONEY AND RIPPED US OFF.

He said we needed to file against Pay Pal.

We wrote months ago and could not even get the courtesy of a response.

We hired paypal to deliver our money to the seller. Pay pal never did so....PAYPAL JUST TOOK OUR MONEY AND KEPT IT.....

We are going to have to file a complaint with the same authorities in the Omaha area etc. regarding being ripped off by pay pal ...

We are also going to explain to all the newsletter editors and people that contact ebay sellers to WARN THEIR READERS, watch out on getting RIPPED OFF BY PAYPAL.

Use credit cards...NOT PAY PAL.... Pay Pal rips you off and wont even respond to a complaint. The same matter with a credit card would have been settled and we would have been reimbursed in three days.